More Pico Armor Fun

Soviet T-72 tank, BMP-2 APC and infantry section - and a Canadian penny

Over the past few years I have periodically dabbled in the Oddzial Osmy's 3mm tanks and troops (example here).  We have even played a game of Cold War Commander using them (back in 2008, I think, but I'm guessing - I couldn't find it on the blog, so it must have been a while).

Motor rifle company in BMP-2s

I am very impressed with the sculpting and casting quality of this range - these are really, really neat.  And the scale offers a chance to "air out" the game a little bit on the table, with engagement ranges that "look" more realistic on the table, and crowds of armour that don't crowd up.  But would this catch up with other gamers?

BMP command unit (round base), BRM recon track, and a platoon of BRDM AT launchers

When I had first purchased these figures I based them in groups, so each stand would literally represent a platoon. But the look still didn't quite work for me - I have always loved tons of tanks on the gaming table, but disliked the "hub to hub" effect this produced in terms of the look.  This happens even with the smaller size figures like 15mm (for examples, see nearly any Flames of War game).  

ZSU-23-4s - an essential for any Warsaw Pact commander

The hub-to-hub effect happens for a lot of reasons on the gaming table which I'm not going to drone on about here.  I thought 3mm might solve it, but the group bases still looked crowded...even allowing for the smaller scale, the tank platoon, for example, still looked crammed into the square base. 

Before on the right, after on the left

T-72 command base (20mm round)

There are certainly times when armoured vehicles mass on the battlefield, but generally they are quite spread out. How to get this on a reasonable sized table, while still playing with a ton of tanks?  I started to experiment with individual basing for the 3mm stuff last summer - example here.  Recently I finished another round of the figures, and re-based some of my previous stuff on individual bases, enough to get tonight's game going.

T-72 company

I think Oddzial Osmy has a devoted fan base - the range is very, very comprehensive and new stuff keeps coming out. Check out the Pico Armor online store to see for yourself. On forums like TMP, however, I have often seen the small scale panned on the grounds that the figures are impossibly small, and "might as well be paper counters".

Leopard C1 squadron

TMP door-knobs aside, 3mm will not be for everyone. For me, it is a lot of fun to work on these little tanks and troops.  It is a challenge to find the right colour shades to make the figures more visible, to shape the groundwork a little bit, etc. You can get a pile of them for a small sum, the range is unbelievably complete, and I even love that they mildly evoke counters - after all, I was a huge fan Avalon Hill games like "France 1940".  I'm also a big Cold War tank geek, so I can "see" the shape of the vehicles right away.  I'm not sure that will hold for the more casual participant.  These will probably need some labels to help with identification. 

Another view of the Leopard C1s

Will this work for gaming? We'll see tonight - we will be playing an imaginary WW3 game, using the overall Soviet invasion plot of the 1984 movie "Red Dawn", in which three Soviet army groups crossed the Bering Straight and tried to link up with a southern Communist pincer coming up from Mexico.  The Soviets are trying to pass through Brandon on their way to the states - and the Canadian Forces have a little something to say about it!

Fun With Size And Scale - 1/56, 1/50, 1/43, 25mm and 28mm

Tanks on parade - from left, Force of Arms T-55, James Bond T-55M, Kitech T-72

A poster on TMP the other day asked if anyone had a comparison shot between some vehicles from Red Star Miniatures and some vehicles from Sloppy Jalopy.  I have some from both, acquired in my various rummagings in modern gaming, so here are a few pictures to help with the comparison for anyone who is wondering.

Like all such posts on TMP, this one elicited a discussion arc that seems to flow the same way - scale is not a size, the differences are slight, no they are not, etc.  Just look what happened to this guy when he floated a discussion on 1/56 vs. 1/50 - in short, don't bring it up on TMP unless you want to accumulate stifles and derision.

I'll save my editorial perspective (worthless as that is) for the end.  In the meantime, here are some different pics of the different kits that have seen action with us and our 25-28mm modern and ultra-modern gaming.  Apologies for the unpainted vehicles...

To help a little with the perspective of a gamer, I added some painted infantry to the shots - a 28mm "Chemical Commie" fro Eureka, a 28mm VDV trooper from Mongrel, and a 40mm Russian Federation infantryman from HLBS (from a line that I believe is no longer available....)

BMP-2s up first....the painted one is 1/56 scale from Sloppy Jalopy, and the unpainted one is 1/48 scale from HLBS*...

Sloppy Jalopy BMP-2 on left, HLBS BMP-2 on the right

Another comparison pic without infantry - no question the HLBS stuff is bulkier/heftier...

From left, a Mongrel Miniatures 28mm, a Eureka 28mm and an HLBS 40mm figure in front of the Sloppy Jalopy BMP-2

Same troops in front of the HLBS BMP-2 - you can see it fits nicely with the 40mm trooper - look OK with the others, but maybe a little big...

Now some BTRs....the unpainted BTR is a BTR-80 in 1/50 scale from Imprint, and the painted one is a "Russian die cast" from E-bay, allegedly 1/43 scale...

BTR-60 on the left - one of the die-cast ones that seem readily available on Ebay; the Imprint BTR-80 is in the black primer....these models are very, very close in size

Troops pose with the Imprint BTR-80....the 40mm lad looks a tad large...

Now some BRDM sized vehicles - a 1/43 scale (allegedly) from "Russian die cast" on Ebay, and a 1/56 scale BRDM with an AT-5 Spandrel launcher from Sloppy Jalopy...

Die cast BDRM on the right, Sloppy Jalopy BRDM on the left

This BRDM seems bulky for the 28mm lads, looks OK with the 40mm chap - the vehicle is allegedly 1/43 scale

The Sloppy Jalopy model is very compact compared to the Russian die-cast, but looks fine with the 28mm models - a bit small for the 40mm trooper

Finally, a little fun with some tanks...the T-55 is 1/56 scale from Force Of Arms, the T-55M (with reactive armour) is actually from a James Bond toy series, and is 1/50 scale, and the T-72 is a Kitech kit, which is (very allegedly) 1/43 scale.  The scale of the Kitech kits needs to be taken with an enormous grain of salt, given that ALL Kitech models have an undercarriage of exactly the same size, with the same road wheels!

Troops in front of a T-55 from Force of Arms models - tank is 1/56 scale

This 1/50 scale T-55M is a James Bond toy - from Ebay

This T-72 is allegedly 1/43 scale, from Kitech - back in the day when we first went nuts on moderns, we were picking these things up in bulk orders for like $5 a model...

I have snipped and whinged numerous times about 1/56 scaled vehicles.  The tall foreheads (particularly on TMP) will smack you down, lecture you on how you are wrong, not the models, that it is scale creep with the castings etc. etc. All of this may be true - but 1/56 scale just looks off - it's too tight - just odd - I call this the "1/56 effect".  But they are still nice models.

1/43 scale on the other hand looks fine for the tanks - but then I am basing this on a Kitech kit - who knows how close to "correct" the overall model is, and what scale it really is.  But I can't have my Russian infantry ride in 1/56 BMP-2s with 1/43 Kitech tanks on the table - the BMPs look way too small, or the tanks way too big, or both.  I will replace my Kitech tanks over time with Imprint T-72, T-80s and T-90s.  But you can't beat the price of those old Kitechs when we got them....and we have had some very, very fun games with them.  The Kitech tanks are still the only model I have ever used a hammer to assemble.

I have found that 1/50 "looks" the best for me when it comes to 28mm gaming.  The HLBS stuff looks awesome, but I suspect it was scaled to match their larger 40mm figures.  I don't have Red Star figures, but if they are a little bulkier - i.e. "heroic 28mm" - then they should look great with the 1/43 stuff and OK with the 1/50 stuff.

For all my subjective blather, however, it depends on what is available.  You will have your own opinion, and may very likely agree with the majority on TMP who would find my perspective uppity, ignorant and full of delusion (and you may be right). Sloppy Jalopy and others have put a nice 1/56 stuff out there.  Meanwhile, Imprint is expanding a range of 1/50 stuff.  The HLBS stuff is excellent. too. Take your pick, fill your boots, and roll some dice! Screw the scale.
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UPDATE - *Correction - July 11, 2012 - the HLBS models are 1/48 scale, not 1/43 scale as was originally stated in this post.  Sorry about that! GB.